Interviews with Artists in Mobile Media Lab residence

The Mobile Media Lab is a residency project, realized through a cooperation between Vivo ARTE.MOV (BR) and Nimk (NL). Brazilian VJ Pixel and Dutch Sander Veenhof are two artists who are chosen to work together for one month in The Netherlands and another month in Brazil. They will work on their projects from different experiences in researching augmented reality (AR) systems.

Interview wit Pixel, Brazilian artist from São Paulo, currently in residence in Amsterdam.

Would you explain a little bit of your project proposal for the residency?

I like to work with “collaborative projects”, where people can participate actively in the project. Initially, I sent the proposal of working on Jandig for the residency.  The organizers saw some similarities between our projects and suggested that we could combine them into one single project.

What do you mean with the term “collaborative project”?

In this context, collaborative projects are open to interference. In Jandig, the collaboration is done through the development of the project and the application. The planning and development of the project was done by people interested in the project proposal and had the will to develop it. This group of people developed the website (http://memelab.com.br/jandig), the software (https://market.android.com/details?id=com.memelab.jandig) and an open call for digital objects. The open call gathered approximately 40 objects. 10 of them were selected and from that were made specific AR markers to each object.

This project can be presented in different ways, depending on the interference of the public. Anyone can access the website, download and print the markers, also the software is available online (including the code). This makes it possible for the ones that are interested to download the content and create an application of the project in a specific context. The markers can be displayed anywhere. They were displayed in a few neighborhoods in São Paulo, and for example at the event Campus Party 2012, we distributed stamps, stickers and T-shirts as markers, in a way that people could choose how they could appropriate and present the project.

One time I was giving a talk about the Jandig project and there was a woman in the audience that collaborated to the project sending one artwork. She said that she liked the idea of having artworks spread in different contexts, not only in front of her computer inside her house.

Would you comment on the images that are displayed at the Jandig website?

Those images were sent through the public call and selected to be part of the project, so there was a kind of curatorship. Because every artwork has a marker, what we see on the website are the artworks and the markers.

Briefly, can you tell how technically this project works?

We developed a program that you can download and then there are “markers”, such as stamps or stickers for example, in which the AR can be accessible. Each marker is related to an artwork that was sent to us. The result is an exhibition, but in a different context, than a galley or museum, for example.

You talked for the first time with the other artist from The Netherlands. What was your first impression and what are your expectations for working together?

I think I will learn a lot working together with Sander. It is also a chance to get to know a different culture and elaborate a project in another country, this is something important for me right now. When we spoke, it was nice to know what he was working on and also the fact that I developed a AR project in which people can download the software before accessing the AR. The way Sander work you need to have Internet access, this is a significant technical difference between our projects. Now we are going to elaborate something combining these two ideas and we will try to create something together.

Did you know about Sander’s work before this residency project?

When I was researching for the Jandig project I saw a guerilla action using AR at the Moma. I didn’t know Sander was part of that project, but when I was talking to Gisela, (one of the organizers of this residency project in Brazil), she told me that he was part of it and I thought was an interesting coincidence.

How come you started to be interested in Augmented Reality?

What triggers me is the fact that augmented reality can be taken to different places, not just inside your house on the computer screen, but on the streets, or anywhere.

My first work with AR was using the game PONG from the 70s and I enjoyed to work with that and decided to explore more.

What are your plans now, before you arrive in The Netherlands?

I think that I will still have a talk with Sander before I leave to The Netherlands. But I think I will start working more intensively when I arrive, on the 28th of February. But for now I am really anxious in going to The Netherlands and also try to be away from all the things I am involved here in Brazil, will be a great challenge. I will try to be really “disconnect” so I can focus on my work over there.

 

Interview with Sander Veenhof, Dutch artist, now working with Pixel in Amsterdam

Could you explain briefly about your AR proposal for this residency project?

Originally I was thinking of creating a sort of system that the pubic could use if they could do a bit of programming, but then they would have to build everything and learn everything. There would be some components ready to be used in a very easy way, but now I think that maybe it should be even easier. We should find use cases that are applicable to the actual need of people. If you want to tell a story then we should do a system that you can do story telling. I think it’s kind of difficult to get people to start with programming.

You talked for the first time with Pixel, the Brazilian artist. What was your first impression and what are your expectations for working together?

Was good to get to know each other and the state of developments that we are involved with. There is a difference in the situation in Brazil and the Netherlands. In Brazil there is not many people with smart phones with Internet connection and in The Netherlands there is a lot of people with it. This is an important difference to understand who is our audience. If we are thinking to do one project we don’t want to make something too complex for Brazil, but we also need to think that in The Netherlands people have access with the smart phone.

Can you explain about the individual “state of developments” that you mentioned?

Pixel is using an open system and I am using another technology.

I am using applications like Layar and Junaio, which for me is also kind of an open technology. These are the two applications that you can use to make Augmented Reality easily.

Maybe we can think of not just developing a whole new system, but to see what Layer and Junaio can offer.

So, your first intention changed a bit a after talking to Pixel…

Well, when you start from scratch you can do it differently than when there is already a lot developed, and goes to a certain direction, so you can make use of that too.

What did change related to your proposal after your talk with Pixel?

Now I think it would be good to take one step back and think what is our purpose, what we want to make. Because Pixel was doing exhibitions, letting people view AR based on a marker that you put somewhere. But now we need to think what we are going to bring to people.

Personally, what I like is that this virtual space is everywhere, the whole world is now having a parallel universe, that it is so flexible and so open to anyone, that can have  endless amount of stories. So, it would be good to make a system that would be interesting for anyone who has a story to tell. Let people tell the stories at the location where they are happening. I think that the work of Pixel is more visual oriented and I was thinking to add texts to it. Have a textual annotation of the streets. We could go to the direction of documenting or story telling. If it’s story telling, as fiction you have the opportunity to include characters, the story could have multiple ends and your main character could make choices. If you are on the streets and you chose left for example, you lead the story to a certain direction. We can either ask people on the streets to tell their story or ask for a writer to create them.

One of the most important things to do first is that we have a basic idea of what we can offer and now is time to find the right use of it. Find good cases where people can use it. Maybe in Brazil we can get in touch with people that has a story to tell. Then would be a “back and forth” way of developing it, because they can say they want to do this or that and then we would have to change the system a little bit.

You are considering now to combine Pixel’s technique, using the markers with your idea. Does the use of a marker change a lot about your first idea of the work?

Well, I think that if you don’t use the markers you are really accessing the whole world, you can add the stories anywhere theoretically. But then the people on the streets don’t know of the presence of the AR. They need to know about it and then the sticker can be useful. It’s a different usage but maybe the two can be combined.

Do you think that you would restrict the public you are reaching in Brazil, based on the fact that most of the people there don’t have access to Internet connection in their phones?

What I like about this reality is that it will continue to be there afterwards, even if you can’t see it. If one person is seeing it at one time, is a fact that it’s there even after the things remain at the location, so maybe afterwards these people will have the phone and will access it. But, in the beginning maybe we would need some of these devices for those people that don’t have the phones yet.

What are your expectations at this moment ?

Its good to see the developments on the other part of the world. And its good to check if the things I am creating are valuable in other parts of the world too.

I will be starting with some dialog with him when he is here to really think about the implementations, not the technical part but more the use case part. Before that time we can already think of the technical things, prepare ourselves a little. We still need to decide a few things. I think there will be still a few calls on skype to see how things are going before he comes.

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